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On Teleportation [Aug. 7th, 2008|06:02 pm]
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Years ago, back when I was prone to laying down for many hours in conditions of significantly altered consciousness, I had an Idea. Following the pattern of behavior that makes such people so unpleasant and scary to decent folks, I spent the next several weeks explaining my Idea to everything that moved, and a few things that didn’t. Because you know what it’s like when you’re pretty sure your brain has exceeded the speed of light and your heart sounds like a badly abused motorcycle engine and you think that maybe other people can hear it so you need to stick eggboxes to the walls and tape rubbish bags to the windows and play Diamanda Galas very very loud at 4am to drown out the sound and paint special pictures on the door with your own blood and semen to keep the police and the Upside Down People away and anyway. Idea.

Teleportation should be a matter of simply proving you’re somewhere else.

A teleportation device would be a little computer set up to run a single equation. And this equation would prove that you’re somewhere else entirely. You’d plug in the coordinates of where you want to be and press Enter. The machine would run, the equation would solve, proving to the entire spacetime continuum that you are in fact in the other place, and suddenly you’d be in the location relating to the provided coordinates. You wouldn’t appear inside another object, because the universe doesn’t like that. The only tricky bit, I figured, would be that the Earth moves through space around the sun and the sun moves through space with the Milky Way and the Milky Way is subject to the expansion of the universe. But people are clever and would find ways to allow for spacetime drift. I think that if you’ve cracked the mathematics to convince the universe that you’re somewhere else entirely, these small details would be easily attended to.

And the best bit is that it wouldn’t require the power demanded by "classical" teleportation — which, some say, demands the energy output of the sun in order to briefly render the teleportee into a controlled Hiroshima-scale nuclear explosion. I figure you could run my teleport device on a couple of AA batteries.

This is, of course, why I don’t really take drugs anymore.

(Automatically crossposted from warrenellis.com. Feel free to comment here or at my internet church at Whitechapel. If anything in this post looks weird, it's because LJ is run on steampipes and rubber bands -- please click through to the main site.)
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[User Picture]From: [info]misterandersen
2008-08-07 05:14 pm (UTC)

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So you invented one of the basic operating principles of a TARDIS then?
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[User Picture]From: [info]warren_ellis
2008-08-07 05:16 pm (UTC)

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VE-REE SO-REE NOT SPEAKO NERD. IN ENGLISHING SLOWLY PLEASE?
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[User Picture]From: [info]dougfort
2008-08-07 05:16 pm (UTC)

Syllogismobile

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This sounds like the Syllogismobile of L. Sprague de Camp and Fletcher Pratt. When I was forbidden to read fantasy or science fiction as a kid, 'The Incomplete Enchanter' is one of the books I had stashed, the way I later stashed drugs. I read it over and over until I had it practically by heart.

http://www.philosophynow.org/archive/articles/40alder.htm
[User Picture]From: [info]lots42
2008-08-07 05:48 pm (UTC)

Re: Syllogismobile

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There were a few books I was not allowed to read as a kid. These are the books I checked out of the library as soon as I could.
[User Picture]From: [info]rstevens
2008-08-07 05:17 pm (UTC)

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Believe it and you can be it! Anywhere.
[User Picture]From: [info]fionn_mac_lir
2008-08-07 08:10 pm (UTC)

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BELIEVE IT!!
[User Picture]From: [info]roguederek
2008-08-07 05:24 pm (UTC)

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Sounds a lot more pleasant than those disintergrator/cloner "teleporters" on Star Trek.
[User Picture]From: [info]lots42
2008-08-07 05:49 pm (UTC)

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I'm still trying to track down that fandom article/maybe Trek novel (really, same thing) that 'proves' the people being transported were not being killed and cloned.

But still, I wouldn't trust myself to a machine that goes offline every time the plot demands it.
[User Picture]From: [info]the_woodshed
2008-08-07 05:27 pm (UTC)

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Tell us more about these Upside Down People
[User Picture]From: [info]dracodraconis
2008-08-07 05:29 pm (UTC)

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If you're only teleporting on Earth, you can use define the coordinate system with respect to the planet's gravitational profile which would be relatively independent of it's orientation and velocity.

A possible problem with proving you are someplace might be the tendency of the universe to "explain" your being there, resulting in an alternate history emerging for why you are at your chosen location.
[User Picture]From: [info]uncledark
2008-08-07 05:33 pm (UTC)

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This, of course, might have happened any number of times by now. And one would never know.
[User Picture]From: [info]caias
2008-08-07 05:37 pm (UTC)

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Also, check out Continuum: roleplaying in the Yet

Similar ideas to what you just wrote.

http://www.aetherco.com/continuum/
[User Picture]From: [info]tundra_no_caps
2008-08-07 05:37 pm (UTC)

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And transmitting to the universe that thing, unless by the use of Mathematics it directly corresponds to the basic structure of the space-time continuum?

Reminds me of one of my earlier thoughts, about using Belief/Disbelief to alter the universe, because you could just as easily/likely be in that other state, so it's all a matter of belief (performed by a solipsist).
[User Picture]From: [info]skywaterblue
2008-08-07 06:21 pm (UTC)

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Well, apparently the universe already does whatever you think it does on a quantum level. (Re: the double slit experiment). The trick is in scaling that up.
[User Picture]From: [info]sir_alf
2008-08-07 05:39 pm (UTC)

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Intresting. I've always thought it more revolved around the relative value of the word "here" and convincing yourself that you are already where you want to be.
[User Picture]From: [info]ignis_mcgruff
2008-08-07 05:44 pm (UTC)

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I'm convince if I just don't pay attention, I could be anywhere.
[User Picture]From: [info]lots42
2008-08-07 05:45 pm (UTC)

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An old story and a truefax incident has given me an idea. We can split atoms and rotate them in one spot and miles away the atom (or molecule or tiny little thing) rotates and we don't know how.

We just need to figure out how to hook that atom up to where it was ten days ago in space and time...
[User Picture]From: [info]xnbach
2008-08-07 05:46 pm (UTC)

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Yep, that's how Tesla did it :)
[User Picture]From: [info]funranium
2008-08-07 05:47 pm (UTC)

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A fixed reference point would be required and those are hard to come by in a relativistic universe. I too have given this some thought but I don't have the same good excuse you do.
[User Picture]From: [info]lots42
2008-08-07 05:50 pm (UTC)

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Now that I think about it, this might explain a few vanishings. People accidentally proved they were in the asteroid belt.

Relatedly, how awesome is it the solar system has an asteroid belt? Totally, that's how.
[User Picture]From: [info]misterandersen
2008-08-07 05:53 pm (UTC)

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I think a rhinestone belt would look snazzier.
[User Picture]From: [info]roninspoon
2008-08-07 05:54 pm (UTC)

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Presumably this computer requires a nice hot cup of proper tea as a cataylst.
[User Picture]From: [info]carpe_jugulum
2008-08-07 06:01 pm (UTC)

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and play Diamanda Galas very very loud at 4am to drown out the sound

Dammit. I do that.
[User Picture]From: [info]moonandserpent
2008-08-07 09:59 pm (UTC)

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That explains why your neighbors seemed used to it last night.

[User Picture]From: [info]eyemage
2008-08-07 06:09 pm (UTC)

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assuming everything and everyone has a identifier.

assuming these identifiers are watched and tracked by...something.

assuming the something watching can be interfaced with.

assuming that the interface allows instant change of location tag.

assuming you survive the process.

yes it should work.

something reminds me of identity thieves.
[User Picture]From: [info]ddean
2008-08-07 06:18 pm (UTC)

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I think that's how a lot of people got through 'Nam...

"I'm not here, I'm back home in Cheyenne, Wyoming."
[User Picture]From: [info]cosmicvillain
2008-08-07 06:21 pm (UTC)

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Ingest the Spice. Become a navigator. Fold space.

The Spice must flow.
[User Picture]From: [info]charitypomaybo
2008-08-07 06:23 pm (UTC)

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yay drugs
[User Picture]From: [info]argentla
2008-08-07 06:25 pm (UTC)

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The tricky bit is that Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle makes it essentially impossible to know your precise location. Granted, the margin of error is pretty much negligible at human scale, but from a mathematical standpoint, it's a hassle.

The interesting thing is that the subatomic particles of which you're made are small enough that that uncertainty is pretty significant. An electron is not so much a little object zipping through space -- it's a cloud of probability marking where it is most likely to be at any given instant. I think there have been experiments done where there was evidence of an electron being located first inside a box, then outside it, with no obvious explanation of how it got from one side to the other beyond the fact that both locations were within its probability 'cloud.'
[User Picture]From: [info]paladinmt
2008-08-07 07:54 pm (UTC)

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Actually, that phenomenon is called tunnelling, and there are all sorts of coll experiments we can do with it!
[User Picture]From: [info]dedbutdrmng
2008-08-07 06:30 pm (UTC)

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Presuming we're the only intelligence in the universe. I've always thought that if I could get everyone to believe I was somewhere else then the Universe would BEND TO OUR MIGHTY WILL* and move me there.

Course, as soon as you get a breakaway sect that wants to believe you're somewhere else it gets difficult.



*Obligatory mentalist block caps.
[User Picture]From: [info]elektro_static
2008-08-07 06:55 pm (UTC)

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I for one would like to see a teleporter that runs on sheer audacity. Some kind of machine with a picture of me that plays a recording along the lines of "HE'S NOT HERE, HE'S BANGING A PROSTITUTE IN SWITZERLAND!" very loudly while I sit beside it nodding and smiling politely at anyone who wanders past, possibly smoking a pipe and swirling a glass of brandy.
[User Picture]From: [info]sinisterwilliam
2008-08-08 09:48 am (UTC)

"Yes, She has stockings, I'm just the attendant, move along now...don't mess with the Teleporter."

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I rather enjoyed this idea.

Pardon me if Mr. Ellis' idea doesn't sound quite a bit Adams-esque...(Flying is simply about 'missing the ground')

Take an active mind & literary background

Add drugs

stir vigorously

Articulately improbable ideas emerge.

If I could write half as well tweaked on drugs as Mr. Warren Ellis or Mr. Douglas Adams...I'd do more drugs.

(and be a better writer).
[User Picture]From: [info]nabbit
2008-08-07 07:11 pm (UTC)

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If you could prove using equations that you were really somewhere else, perhaps you could convince the same device - using alternative equations - that you were any-when else or any-one else; that you were six inches taller; or a different gender; that you could speak French; or that you were a semi-nude anthropomorphic frog who liked Harold Faltemeiyer. It would be a 'does anything' device. You would just need the right equations. Which you could download for £4-50 a week. They would be the equivalent of ringtones.
[User Picture]From: [info]nexus_six
2008-08-07 07:12 pm (UTC)

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How are air and other gaseous substances not "objects" in this sense? The perception that stuff is separate is a bit of an illusion really.
[User Picture]From: [info]warren_ellis
2008-08-07 07:14 pm (UTC)

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I refer you to the word "drugs" above.

For fuck's sake.
[User Picture]From: [info]thesheryl
2008-08-07 07:15 pm (UTC)

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Diamanda Galas and drugs is a great idea...
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