And how much will you pay those artists?

Exposure is good, but getting women to work for men for free is pretty much the whole basis of the patriarchy, fyi.

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Exposure is more than good. It's free advertising in a column written by a leading comics writer. That's damn good.

AIUI, he's not claiming rights to the piece either; you can just take your most recent piece of work, slap the appropriate words on it, and watch the hits to your site climb.

I applaud your principles, but feel that you are letting yourself be bound by technicalities.

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- he's going to use their art
- they'll be known as "Ministry Announcer or something similar"
- his name and the name of his column will be on the artwork
- the rights to the piece? good point: that's something else to consider

Advertisers can be known for their work when they get high-profile contracts, but they're still doing the work and being paid for it; in this case, he'll be getting artists to do the work of illustrating his column.

It's free advertising all right, but for him, because they are going to be doing the work.

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you make interesting points.

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The amount of respect Warren garners should not be undervalued. I doubt any piffling amount of money he could justify paying you would be of greater worth than a glowing recommendation to his fans.

In other words, value(kudos) > value(cash).

I'll quit the conversation now before I start making Cory Doctorow references. Oops.   8^]

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I'm sure she understands what you're saying re exposure, and no one who reads warren would argue anything but he represents women in a kick ass, varied, strong manner.

there's something to what she says though, it goes beyond direct action into systems and how they're set up and what is considered okay.

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Right, the exposure is worth something to the women. But the exposure is in theory also worth something to Warren. Clearly he's trying to do a cool thing, and a lot of people will appreciate it.

But it's like the position I'm in as a translator. In one way I'm translating a writer's work into English and getting them a U.S./English speaking readership, so I'm doing them a huge service. On the other hand, I've already got a huge amount of privilege, and I'm making cultural capital off their work, in other words, though I'm working for free, and no one's paying ME for the poem or whatever, I'm building my own career off of my use of their work. Anyway, why not acknowledge there's inherent problems with certain power imbalances, and it's all more complicated!

I don't get mad at little poetry journals who don't pay, but who try to open up their calls for submissions as widely as they can. And with Warren's offer, I think it could give some women artists who are just starting to think of themselves as "real artists" a boost of self confidence, etc. That could lead them to get paid somewhere else.

I also just saw this same issue play out with BlogHer, where some women who are mommybloggers got invited to a sort of marketing focus group that wanted to, well, basically wanted free content for their web site, and was trying to offer these women "exposure" as the reward for their writing. Now, blogging is somewhat in transition to some kind of freelance writing/journalism model... and what that company was doing was pretty insulting. They took some of the most famous bloggers around, excellent writers, and acted like not only would they work for free, but they didn't pay them for their time and expertise in the focus group. Because they're moms and wives and therefore already "working for free" in most of their lives, all their other labor is assumed to be free as well.

So, maybe such attempts should be careful not to "track" people to a dead-end work-for-free track, but to help them figure out how to play whatever professional game there is to play. That might help. And it sounds like Warren already tries to do some of that work, or to support people who do it.

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heartshearts

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This icon's for you.

Because if you knew a damn thing about Ellis, (or bothered to take a damn moment to educate yourself) you'd know that he's worked hard to promote and protect creator's rights.

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It's free advertising all right, but for him, because they are going to be doing the work.

Well, it wouldn't make very much sense for them to receive advertising, free or otherwise, if they didn't do anything.

If a woman in the comics industry were offering this very same deal, I'm fairly certain you wouldn't be making such a stink about this. And it would be wonderful if a well established lady in the industry were offering female artists this same opportunity. But they're not offering, that we know -- Mr. Ellis is. Surely we're not going to punish him for having external genitals.

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Oh, what a surprise, you're French Canadian...

There is no money, for anyone. I do the column for free to draw people's attention to the work of Jennifer Contino at The Pulse. I figured I could do a little more good while I'm there by doing this. So you can revel in the idea that a man is doing work for a woman for free while, you know, achieving absolutely nothing over there...

And, obviously, they maintain all rights in the piece, should they want to strip off the MINISTRY stuff and do something else with the art in future. OBVIOUSLY.

Thanks for deciding to assume I'm an arsehole. I needed that this morning.

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The way you write women is wonderful. I find I am grateful to your work. *rolls eyes* but your work stands alone. it does.

You work with women, you promote them, you like them, love them, it is sad it is rare to see. but it is. So yeah, you're fucking cool.

It isn't this action, this wonderful thing you are doing, the opportunity you are giving, that is offensive. I think the flavour of the request, even though working for exposure such as you offer is a gift, reminds some women of ways we have been hurt and are hurt in other places/dealings.

I don't think her anger was AT you, if so, my view is it is missplaced.

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Male artist gets to exploit women's work under the guise of "helping" women. Male artist already has fame and fortune on account of being born with a penis, whilst women artists are struggling. Therefore women artists are in need of his help which puts him in a great position.



that's I think why it may disquiet even though, what you're doing is amazing.

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How is this even exploitation? He's asking for illustrators. He's crediting them. He's giving them 50% of the profits.   8^)

I understand the feminist concept that help from a man undermines the movement, but I don't see why a man who offers his help should be attacked. It's as if, instead of being angry at the system, the woman feels the need to transfer it to a specific man and then get angry at him. Which is nasty.

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who attacked? *blinks*

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and it has NOTHING to do with any such RIDICULOUS noion of a feminist concept. There isn't a feminist concept about help from a man. What is feminist concern is the underlying value message.

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the sucky thing is to be in your position. we want barriers broken for women. and people in general appreciate when someone established reaches back a hand to help. you've consistently helped women in career for years, you've female following, you writes feminist (how fucking rare is that?) even so, unwittenly invoking a bad taste right in the middle of being a good man...

seriously. we (totally collective, baby) know you're a good guy.

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Thanks for deciding to assume I'm an arsehole. I needed that this morning.

No good deed goes unpunished.

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Hah, this is unrelated and random, but what do you mean by "what are surprise, you're French Canadian"?

Given the context it seems like a jab at this person, but I don't know what you meant by it, and thus don't know whether to be offended or not. Heh.

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